Post by jevvyfish on Jul 14, 2009 0:57:33 GMT
Hello all
Some of you will know me from my efforts to get involved since the founding of the supporters trust, whilst others will only have got to know who I am for the first time at tonight's meeting when we discussed the hot topic of the club crest.
My name's Jevon and I have followed the club for about 5 years. I haven't been to many games as i have only lived in the area at the beginning and end of that time, but from this season I will be a season ticket holder and am committed to getting involved with the club.
I am a professional designer; I work for the Victoria and Albert Museum shop, so I do have experience when it comes to merchandise - and it was this knowledge and the contacts that come with it that I was trying to bring to the club with regard to the crest and the use of the crest on merchandise. I fully realise that I did not get this across before the debate on this matter at tonights meeting.
Football crests and badge sare a big hobby of mine - I collect shirts and badges. I totally respect the tradition of the club, its history and the passionate feeling among members regarding the club identity. The badge design I did for the club was an idea, which was based on the crest the club has had for the past 5 years (which is what I, and some others understood to be the voted design at the 2nd meeting) simplified for economic reasons - IE it was an attempt to be true to the club traditions, whilst making a badge simple enough and long lasting enough to make the most money possible out of merchandise.
The fact that this design was taken forward as far as it was without consulting the membership was purely down to time and money - we could not get hold of good enough artwork for any of the old crests and needed something to show to the factories to get prices and delivery times. .
We had several companies quote competitive prices and ready to go for delivery for the first week of the season. As it is, tonight's vote will mean that we are very unlikely to be able to get any merchandise ready for the first game of the season, though I will still do all I can to make that happen - on that you have my word - but the fact is that unless we can get something else ready in the next 48 hours it will not happen.
What I find hard to accept is that we have now twice taken a vote on club crests without all the options actually presented in front of the membership, with a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of each choice. This has been partly to do with time - everything is against the clock at this point - but the end result has been 2 muddled and confused votes, entirely fuelled by good intention and genuine passion, but without the organisation to make an informed decision.
In the course of these 2 votes, it has become clear that there is alot of confusion about the history of the club crests. For a good, quick overview of the history of the club crest I suggest members use the following link to the excellent Football Crests website which has a page dedicated to Fisher - www.footballcrests.com/clubs/fisher-athletic-london-fc
Otherwise, my reading up on the subject has led me to understand the following:
The club was formed in 1908 and named after St John Fisher, a catholic martyr who famously opposed Henry VIII. He was a leader in education and international relations. He was someone prepared to stand up for what they believed in against the odds - very relevant to the club today Im sure you'll agree! The first club badge was based on his arms - half red and white diagonal cross and shell, half fish and wheatsheaves. The most recent club crest (in use for the past five years) was a reinvention of this crest. You can see this at these links:
www.flickr.com/photos/evissa/514650116/
www.flickr.com/photos/paullew/2599747425/
www.fanzone.co.uk/Team/Fisher-Athletic-Football-Club.aspx
In the 1980s when the club reached it's highest peak in terms of league ladder success, the club played under a crest which was adapted from the Southwark Council crest made in 1965 by combining the metropolitan borough crests of the three principle areas - Southwark, Camberwell and Bermondsey - link to the original crest here - www.civicheraldry.co.uk/southwark_lb.JPG
This is the crest that members seem to have settled on. The main part of this crest (the red and white part) symbolises Camberwell. The rose represents Southwark Town whilst the ship represents Bermondsey. The adapted version used by Fisher in the 80s is here: www.footballcrests.com/FisherAOldCrest2.gif
The 1902 Southwark crest which was replaced by the 1965 amalgamation above is here: www.ngw.nl/int/gbr/s/images/southwar.jpg
A lot of talk has been about 'the Bermondsey crest'. It seems that many members think this is the above crest (1965 Southwark Council), but actually, the club only played under the true Bermondsey crest during the time the club was known as 'Fisher '93' after another murky period of the clubs handling. This 'original' Bermondsey crest was made in 1901 and represents Bermondsey, Rotherhithe and St. Olave, with the ship representing the shipbuilding of Rotherhithe, the Lion and Crozier representng the old Bermondsey Abbey and the Axe and Crown representing St Olave - the Norwegian King who saved London Bridge from the Danes and who has a church dedicated to him in the borough.
The original version of this is here: www.civicheraldry.co.uk/bermondsey.JPG
and the club version used before is here: www.footballcrests.com/clubs/fisher-athletic-london-fc
Basically the same but in black and red with 'Fisher '93' added.
I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through all of this - with more time on our side I would have like to have presented this to the members before a proper, informed vote was then taken.
The 2nd supporters trust meeting left the door to such a considered process open, but investigations into making the most profit from merchandise meant that delaying for a year was not the best option for the financial well-being of the club. The members active on the committee and their contacts have reacted to this with good intentions, and produced an idea for a crest - and in turn the wider membership has made it's opinion felt.
To move on, we need to get good quality artwork of the crest members want and get moving quickly, as vital time has already been lost.
However, I think it is worthwhile putting this history together and asking ANYONE and EVERYONE to put their opinion forward NOW.
THE VOTE HAS BEEN TAKEN AND STANDS -
But i want to state again that in my opinion the Fish is important as it is part of the true original crest of the club with the link to John Fisher. It is also the nickname everybody knows us by, and whtaever we become - Fisher Bermondsey, Fisher Southwark, whatever - the Fisher part will remain.
However, I also feel the Bermondsey crest is true to the club because it is both from the era that the club was founded, and a true representation of the area's history.
The Southwark crest, which seems to be the one we have come away from the meeting with at the top of the pile is the least relevant to the club in terms of it's history - its only strength is that it was the crest during the club's most successful period. It is not the Southwark crest anymore, and indeed efforts to get this crest from the council have proved a dead end as they no longer use it. BUT -
THE VOTE HAS BEEN TAKEN AND STANDS - Brian Parish is trying to find a version of the Southwark crest used before, and Jude and myself will continue to try and find/redo a version good enough to use for the programmes, website and merchandise.
In the meantime, I would urge anybody who has read all this and has an opinion to make it known to any/all of us by posting it in this thread. It may yet be that some compromise has to be made for the greater good, and none of us want to make the wrong decision on something that is so important to everybody.
Time is not on our side - so please, make your feelings known so we can go forward with the best solution for all and get on with making some money for the club. We might all come from different angles at this, but we are all in it together for the good of the club.
Thanks and COME ON THE FISH!
If anyone wants to contact me directly, or send me something crest-related, my emai lis not hidden on here, but for your ref it is jevonhall@gmail.com. I dont get out much, so Im happy to answer all your emails on this!
Some of you will know me from my efforts to get involved since the founding of the supporters trust, whilst others will only have got to know who I am for the first time at tonight's meeting when we discussed the hot topic of the club crest.
My name's Jevon and I have followed the club for about 5 years. I haven't been to many games as i have only lived in the area at the beginning and end of that time, but from this season I will be a season ticket holder and am committed to getting involved with the club.
I am a professional designer; I work for the Victoria and Albert Museum shop, so I do have experience when it comes to merchandise - and it was this knowledge and the contacts that come with it that I was trying to bring to the club with regard to the crest and the use of the crest on merchandise. I fully realise that I did not get this across before the debate on this matter at tonights meeting.
Football crests and badge sare a big hobby of mine - I collect shirts and badges. I totally respect the tradition of the club, its history and the passionate feeling among members regarding the club identity. The badge design I did for the club was an idea, which was based on the crest the club has had for the past 5 years (which is what I, and some others understood to be the voted design at the 2nd meeting) simplified for economic reasons - IE it was an attempt to be true to the club traditions, whilst making a badge simple enough and long lasting enough to make the most money possible out of merchandise.
The fact that this design was taken forward as far as it was without consulting the membership was purely down to time and money - we could not get hold of good enough artwork for any of the old crests and needed something to show to the factories to get prices and delivery times. .
We had several companies quote competitive prices and ready to go for delivery for the first week of the season. As it is, tonight's vote will mean that we are very unlikely to be able to get any merchandise ready for the first game of the season, though I will still do all I can to make that happen - on that you have my word - but the fact is that unless we can get something else ready in the next 48 hours it will not happen.
What I find hard to accept is that we have now twice taken a vote on club crests without all the options actually presented in front of the membership, with a sensible discussion about the pros and cons of each choice. This has been partly to do with time - everything is against the clock at this point - but the end result has been 2 muddled and confused votes, entirely fuelled by good intention and genuine passion, but without the organisation to make an informed decision.
In the course of these 2 votes, it has become clear that there is alot of confusion about the history of the club crests. For a good, quick overview of the history of the club crest I suggest members use the following link to the excellent Football Crests website which has a page dedicated to Fisher - www.footballcrests.com/clubs/fisher-athletic-london-fc
Otherwise, my reading up on the subject has led me to understand the following:
The club was formed in 1908 and named after St John Fisher, a catholic martyr who famously opposed Henry VIII. He was a leader in education and international relations. He was someone prepared to stand up for what they believed in against the odds - very relevant to the club today Im sure you'll agree! The first club badge was based on his arms - half red and white diagonal cross and shell, half fish and wheatsheaves. The most recent club crest (in use for the past five years) was a reinvention of this crest. You can see this at these links:
www.flickr.com/photos/evissa/514650116/
www.flickr.com/photos/paullew/2599747425/
www.fanzone.co.uk/Team/Fisher-Athletic-Football-Club.aspx
In the 1980s when the club reached it's highest peak in terms of league ladder success, the club played under a crest which was adapted from the Southwark Council crest made in 1965 by combining the metropolitan borough crests of the three principle areas - Southwark, Camberwell and Bermondsey - link to the original crest here - www.civicheraldry.co.uk/southwark_lb.JPG
This is the crest that members seem to have settled on. The main part of this crest (the red and white part) symbolises Camberwell. The rose represents Southwark Town whilst the ship represents Bermondsey. The adapted version used by Fisher in the 80s is here: www.footballcrests.com/FisherAOldCrest2.gif
The 1902 Southwark crest which was replaced by the 1965 amalgamation above is here: www.ngw.nl/int/gbr/s/images/southwar.jpg
A lot of talk has been about 'the Bermondsey crest'. It seems that many members think this is the above crest (1965 Southwark Council), but actually, the club only played under the true Bermondsey crest during the time the club was known as 'Fisher '93' after another murky period of the clubs handling. This 'original' Bermondsey crest was made in 1901 and represents Bermondsey, Rotherhithe and St. Olave, with the ship representing the shipbuilding of Rotherhithe, the Lion and Crozier representng the old Bermondsey Abbey and the Axe and Crown representing St Olave - the Norwegian King who saved London Bridge from the Danes and who has a church dedicated to him in the borough.
The original version of this is here: www.civicheraldry.co.uk/bermondsey.JPG
and the club version used before is here: www.footballcrests.com/clubs/fisher-athletic-london-fc
Basically the same but in black and red with 'Fisher '93' added.
I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through all of this - with more time on our side I would have like to have presented this to the members before a proper, informed vote was then taken.
The 2nd supporters trust meeting left the door to such a considered process open, but investigations into making the most profit from merchandise meant that delaying for a year was not the best option for the financial well-being of the club. The members active on the committee and their contacts have reacted to this with good intentions, and produced an idea for a crest - and in turn the wider membership has made it's opinion felt.
To move on, we need to get good quality artwork of the crest members want and get moving quickly, as vital time has already been lost.
However, I think it is worthwhile putting this history together and asking ANYONE and EVERYONE to put their opinion forward NOW.
THE VOTE HAS BEEN TAKEN AND STANDS -
But i want to state again that in my opinion the Fish is important as it is part of the true original crest of the club with the link to John Fisher. It is also the nickname everybody knows us by, and whtaever we become - Fisher Bermondsey, Fisher Southwark, whatever - the Fisher part will remain.
However, I also feel the Bermondsey crest is true to the club because it is both from the era that the club was founded, and a true representation of the area's history.
The Southwark crest, which seems to be the one we have come away from the meeting with at the top of the pile is the least relevant to the club in terms of it's history - its only strength is that it was the crest during the club's most successful period. It is not the Southwark crest anymore, and indeed efforts to get this crest from the council have proved a dead end as they no longer use it. BUT -
THE VOTE HAS BEEN TAKEN AND STANDS - Brian Parish is trying to find a version of the Southwark crest used before, and Jude and myself will continue to try and find/redo a version good enough to use for the programmes, website and merchandise.
In the meantime, I would urge anybody who has read all this and has an opinion to make it known to any/all of us by posting it in this thread. It may yet be that some compromise has to be made for the greater good, and none of us want to make the wrong decision on something that is so important to everybody.
Time is not on our side - so please, make your feelings known so we can go forward with the best solution for all and get on with making some money for the club. We might all come from different angles at this, but we are all in it together for the good of the club.
Thanks and COME ON THE FISH!
If anyone wants to contact me directly, or send me something crest-related, my emai lis not hidden on here, but for your ref it is jevonhall@gmail.com. I dont get out much, so Im happy to answer all your emails on this!